Episode 26: Arguing

[00:00:00] Seth Roberts: So arguing has this way of making us feel good about ourselves if we, quote, win an argument. It's got this competitive appeal. It's based on the domination of your opponent through wit, knowledge, or simply by overwhelming them to the point where they lose. They don't really see the point in responding back.

Speaking for myself, it feels good to win an argument. Watching the other side sulk away in submission gives us kind of a validation that makes us think that we're right or maybe just better at arguing. I know that feeling well, and I have sought it out way too many times. It's the same sort of rush that you get from winning a game.

The problem with arguing, though, is that it gives us this illusion that we are actually winning people to our sides. See, arguing has a performative quality where only the emotionally detached are able to really be swayed by it. We love to watch debate videos where people that share our views silence an opponent.

But the likelihood that the person being silenced is swayed towards the other person's side is maybe one in a hundred. And if that person does ever come around, it won't be in the moment, but rather when they're feeling disillusioned themselves in a moment or two. When they're not being challenged.

People really only seem to be swayed by arguing when they are watching other people do it. Outside of that, arguing is almost entirely ineffective. People make up their minds truly when they feel like it was them, not someone else, that made up their mind. And for this reason, if you want to actually be effective, you need to invite people to think.

Not tell them what to think. So if you really want to argue, make sure you recognize that you're performing and you're unlikely to succeed in persuading your opponent unless they have little to no emotional investment into the topic and will still be able to save face. Most of us will rarely, if ever spend time arguing in front of a crowd, so it's probably best to focus on what actually stands a chance of persuading a person in a one on one situation rather than becoming an expert debater.

You might have noticed that in small children, the instinct to do things independent of another's bidding is amazingly strong. Around one to two years old, the child will start asserting that they do things themselves. When you start offering things or asking for something, the default answer is usually no.

So sometimes with my own two year old daughter, I'll sit her down for dinner, only to have her refuse to eat and spend the rest of the meal being a distraction to the rest of us. by making noises or singing, and after dinner, when the rest of us have finished, I'll sometimes let her out of her chair, but leave the food on the table, only to find her sneaking back later to eat her dinner.

So persuading a person is, it's less about being good at arguing, more And it's more about giving people a reason to consider a different conclusion. A prerequisite to being able to persuade someone is to convince them that you understand what they think on the matter. See, people don't really trust another person until they feel that the other person has the capacity to comprehend them.

And my work, whenever there's a dispute with a client, it almost always ends up becoming my problem to deal with because I own the company. So I run into a lot of people that are trying to convince me that I owe them money for this or that. And there's one particular thing that happens quite a lot when I'm dealing with people that just drives me nuts.

And it's when I repeat back to them what I think they said. And instead of telling me yes or no, or attempting to be clearer, they just repeat themselves. I think it's a defense mechanism when they're struggling to find a way to justify their actions. Sometimes these people will say something that makes no sense to me at all.

And so to clarify, I take a guess and tell them what I think they said. And I think when they hear it repeated back to themselves, it makes them a little uncomfortable. And so they'll just refuse to clarify and they'll just repeat themselves. And from my perspective, it makes them look really stupid, but whatever, it gives them some perception of control in a situation.

I can't tell you how frustrating it is for me. Even as I'm speaking now, it, I feel my blood boiling just a little bit. The point in me bringing this up is that I lose so much respect for a person when they do this, and I'm not persuaded by their perspective in the slightest. If I don't feel like they're responding to the words that I'm saying, I go into a kind of muted rage and all the while no progress is made, granted, I'm sure there's, More that I can do to get the best out of people but being the human that I am I still lose patience and fall short from time to time.

I can't overstate how important it is to make someone feel understood if you ever hope to persuade them. Feeling understood by a person by no means is going to persuade them on anything, but it's an absolutely necessary prerequisite before a person begins to feel understood. Be open to whatever you have to say.

There are some people in life that seem to be perpetually disliked to some degree by most of the people around them. And I think the biggest reason for that in a lot of cases is that those people are often terrible and making others feel like they are understood or even comprehended when people talk to them.

Additionally, if a person begins to feel like you have an investment in a particular outcome, that will likewise break trust. Unless, of course, you're transparent about that investment in the first place. For example, if I'm trying to sell someone a product, but treat the sales process like I'm trying to look out for that person's best interest, because I care so much about them, I'll probably leave a bad taste in that person's mouth.

And more than likely, they will either start counting the seconds until they feel like they can escape the conversation, or they'll just tell me to stop right there. On the other hand, if I start off the conversation by telling the person I am trying to sell something to them, I have at the very least provided some authenticity.

They may not want the product that I'm trying to sell, but If they do continue to listen, it'll be much more likely to be out of a genuine interest in what I have to say. Another way we can lose trust when we're trying to persuade a person is by using incorrect assumptions. So if you're trying to persuade an atheist that they need to follow the Ten Commandments because the Bible says so, it's probably not going to sit very well with the atheist.

They will immediately feel unheard and probably think you're stupid. Likewise, if you were trying to convince me which toothpaste is best by telling me that your dad is a dentist, you would have lost me. Because for one, you are not a dentist. And for two, I don't have the belief that because a doctor or a dentist says something, it's necessarily true.

There's a lot of doctors and dentists that say a lot of different things. Once a person feels understood, if you want them to actually try to understand your perspective, you have to be careful not to tell them how it is, but rather invite them to consider how things could be. Usually the best way to do this is by asking questions that lead a person to similar conclusions, but it has to be them making that conclusion.

It can't be you. This gives people a chance to think for themselves. Being told what to think makes us feel like slaves, but being invited to think allows us our freedom. Once you've earned a person's trust, this is the point at which what you have to say may actually matter to them. There are people in my life that I love, but when they begin to tell me about how things are, I roll my eyes.

There are other people that I actually listen to when they speak. The people that I actually hear are not the people that browbeat me. They are not generally the people that lecture me. They are the people that I trust. So are you the kind of person that people trust? And what are you possibly doing that would keep people from trusting you?

Are you authentic with your intentions? Do you tell people what you think? Are you pushy? Do you actually care about that person? Or are you seeking the rush of victory by lecturing them to the point that they're nodding their head in agreement, hoping that maybe if they think you think they agree with you, they'll That you won't feel the need to keep on trying to persuade them.

So before you seek to persuade someone, I think you should first consider seeking to be trusted by someone. And I hope the intent behind seeking a person's trust comes from a genuine concern for that person. We all have the opportunity in life to effect change in others. There are few greater honors in life than to know that you are a person that others are willing to hear.

But maybe it's an even greater honor to be the kind of person that others want to have listening to them.